Below are transcripts of Judith Mogul’s and Jill DesRosiers’ contemporaneous handwritten notes of their conversation with Charlotte Bennett on June 30, 2020. They have been provided by a supporter of Governor Cuomo who wants to contribute to our effort to make information accessible. IMPORTANT: These are not certified transcripts and may contain errors. Any dates or comments inside [ ] brackets are additions by the transcriptionist. Words marked with an asterisk * mean they were not sure of them. Bold formatting has been added by us.
Ms. Mogul’s Notes (Exhibit 2)
T/C w/ Charlotte + Jill 6/30/20
[The following notes are in left hand margin, assuming by Judy:]
Heard that she had an experience that made her uncomfortable – need to hear in her own words what happened exactly. Everyone treated same way – no exceptions
Re w/ Gov – how much contact – what kind how frequent how long in Job – alone Steph? discuss personal things? COVID? Charge staffing What involved incident day – when, where, what – when was she sitting? where was he
Exact words – what did you say – he say –
[drawing of box, computer, desk]
How did convo end?
Other incidents/instances unusual?
[Right column CB]
I addressed it pretty early – the planting of a seed – I feel like things are ok – the transition has been good – taking step away
The gov had a series of personal conversations – asked what I wanted to do professionally – did a lot of work on my Campus Title IX – life changing moment – got into a convo – felt comfortable as to how personal it was – but in course of a few convos – I felt it was taking a different direction.
I was in his office – asked how going –
Asked to be key note speaker at Alma Mater – talked about how I was sexually assaulted in college + over my life – he kept saying – you were raped you were raped – aggressive “some men just see women as little playthings”
–> Strange – he had to know I was uncomfortable
[right column CB]
then he said he was lonely and looking for a girlfriend-
a few weeks later I ended up back in his office –
Staffing? [Q from Judy?]
– with me doing dictation + stuff
finished chatting –
brought up my speech – asked how it went – then said wait – turn of your tape recorder
very long conversation –
Stephanie – were you working that whole time –
What were you talking about
looking for a girl friend –
not linear –
he asked me about how being sexually assaulted affected the way I was attracted to men –
Sandy not talking to him
not sleeping well
find me a girlfriend
[notes in a third column can’t figure out. This is best guess.]
/really hard/he’d not having touched someone in months
He asked me how I felt about age differences–> He brushed off
I think age ≠ [does not equal sign] matter >above 22
He knew I was 25 (speech on B-day)
I said like you daughter
Talked about monogamy –
Asked about recent hookups
Boyfriend in coma –
Last serious relation
He wanted to know who I had been seeing –
If I was sleeping with other people if they were sleeping with other people
longest relationship she ex–boyfriend coma
doesn’t know what to do
get on motorcycle
take a woman into the mountains
forget about pandemic for a few hours
I don’t know how you have time for a relationship
privacy ≠ a problem
next day – just me – everyone else left
[this must be in the afternoon, because there was a briefing that day around 11:30]
felt like a follow up to how he could find privacy.
he asked if I had found a GF for him yet
he said I looked like daisy dukes + then he left
Asked a lot of questions in my sexual history
Incident Friday the 5th + Saturday the 6th
staffed in city on Tuesday 9th
A lot of Red flags
Do you know what a cone of silence is –
We had personal conversation we have a cone of silence here –
blatant example of grooming –
Original conversation Jill was June 10, follow up 12th
Started Jan 2019 –>
direct contact w/ him?
No – more in my roll staff – got more confish/confid???* boundaries got…
John V left in May – that’s when I met him
Staffing – means:
Really staffing Steph – helping her manage calls/ communications
He’ll call – dictate – or make edit to mark + manage the in + out
Often – ½ the week –Whenever he was in the city – I was at desk
Flew w/ him a few a times
First personal convo –>
first week I met him – asked me if I was single – why – “a lot of losers” – tried to make light of it
He asked me if I commit to things I told him I commit to school
x-boyfriend – after a year of break up fell into a comma – I moved + nursed him back to health –
He asked questions – respectful
[Note in left column about next paragraph may be a Q]
Pretty early first month or 2
[Back to CB:]
We* could be chatty together –
He is always interested in what people are up to –
I was weight training –
Talking mostly about the gym
He asked me to do pushups for him
I was not uncomfortable
I did pushups until he told me to stop
Technically a competition
He would say he could do 20+
Back + forth
Generally alone – [Q from J]
More often than not Steph there
Personal when Steph there – [Q from J]
More willing to chat when others not around
Most often – chats at end of work
Talked about parents – living w/ them – similar interests to my father – motorcycles –
Showed him YouTube video longest plank ever
Soccer v. his daughter
Our towns are close
Relationship status came up 1 or 2 more times –
it was pretty brief –
Women w/ muscles being intimidated –
Ask about my training – “I don’t bench press” –
Enough is enough – [Q from J]
I went to his house to pick up a power point
Waiting in command Center –
He was in pool house –
There looking at PP – watching TV –
Seem bored – unfocused
Chatty mood –
He likes to gossip about office – a little bit now
what’s going on – he knows he is a bit isolated
? now “so off” [office?]
I didn’t say anything – I had nothing to say –
“tell me something” – anything –
In 2015 you signed enough is enough –
it changed my life –
I told him the story of my life –
How I lost my virginity
Abusive relationship in college
How he sexually assaulted me
How I reported it
What happened w/ investgating* at
My organization I started
My investigation started a couple of months
After he signed the bill –
Office nervous and under prepared
after investigation I started looking at fed guidance state policy –
research – ended up becoming my thesis.
JM – how did he respond?
CB – he was interested
He asked a lot of Qs about why BF abusive –
What I wanted to do long term –
He wanted me to take a step back – not one bad experience
I told him I was raped at 16 –
Do you know what a cone of silence is –
If you do this for your career will always be fighting people in power – never win – you have to take power –
That’s why I am here – [line with three dots over it]
We talked about REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED
didn’t want to talk about it – he pushed her a lot
Asked how it affected CB relationship w/ father, he was very serious.
my parents didn’t support
Total shit show – lied said it made relationship stronger –
JM – handled in a way did not make you uncomfortable?
Unusual to talk about my sex life – but not inappropriate
Very personal convo that he took seriously –
Sunday afternoon about 2:00 before the budget speech –
JM – Other personal convos before June?
During Covid – did not see him until May –
? [Question mark in margin in black ink]
[fiat circled, underlined twice]
first mtg was fiat
Took place – at Capitol in his office –
unused* seating* –
laying on couch w/ feet up –
put down a folder – tried to run out – (6:45)
he stopped you à [Q from J]
still laying down I am at door –front of couch –
he what are you doing – haven’t seen youI
‘ve been here
How long –
60 days –
Who is interested in you? – nobody – I deflected
I DK[don’t know] the phrase he used (sleeping with?)
Who are you hanging w/ -? Listed folks –
Talked about ????* office
Are you going to marry Noah –
Isn’t he great – he’s fantastic? Gonna get married?
Talked about Jack too –
he asked me to sit down –
he sat up –
I pulled over a chair – on other side of coffee table –
I mentioned the speech –> appropriate follow up to January convo
I D R [don’t recall] specifically –
Commencement speech –
For the women’s college about my work –
What I was going to say –
What are you thinking
don’t know if I brought up sexual abuse
Made a thoughtful correction – I used
Showing up in spite of pain –
Not pain – injustice + betrayal –
You were raped, you were raped you were raped –
you were abused –
force and repetition was very odd
Men treat women as sexual play toys –
Didn’t sit right w/ me – more than 3 times
Feels like you are not saying for my sake – to herself –
Felt like a test – wants to see if he could get under your skin –
By end of convo – it felt like a turning point
This is what you should say …
He gets up and moves to his desk –
Still in chair – turned my body toward him
He asked me to move across from
He continued his version of my speech –
It was so odd –
So then I said to him that one things I was think about when I was trying to write such a painful thing can quickly become greatest accomplishment
Pandemic must be for him –
Showing up when things are hard –
My work at Hamilton totally changed course of life I am wondering of you are doing
How do you think I am doing
Wondering about when to end –
Expressed concern people less interested in briefings
Am I doing anything different?
crabby [in margin]
Why are people losing interest –
“a lot was fear and anticipation of climbing mountain – deflated, tired – people less urgent –
May Convo May 15 – Friday 6:45 am[continued]
We talked about what worked –
What resonated –
“personal touches” – seeing him really experiencing –
genuine emotional – real New Yorker – people are scared – kids getting sick
Fear staring at mountain
First looking for GF? – [Question from JM]
I said how are you doing
Tired and lonely
Wants to get on a bike w/a woman go into a mountain
w/in larger convo –
Melissa came into the office – so he handed me pp
[note in margin] Convo ≠ how?
Ran to the team – threw them slide
Aggressive + repeated you were raped, you were abused + inquiries
First time distressed – [Q from JM?]
November – having a bad week
When he arrived at 6:33 – Why are you wearing your hair like that –
He didn’t talk to me all day –
Didn’t say anything – asked me why I was/wore*
my hair – because messy –
He walked away –
I said “he doesn’t like my hair” –
Upset + annoyed –
Next convo –>
Went into office w/ Farah – ½ dictation
Sent out. I stayed
Post tape – recorder
Mask kept sucking into face
Made a comment like predator –
If someone asked me –
if I was being investigated for sexual harassment – she looks like a predator –>
He was making a joke how his comment re my appearance how could you say I was sexually – strange comment weird –
Post tape recorder –
Talked about speech – I said it went really well – talked about sucks to be on Zoon – had champagne at the end – may have discussed substance –
Did she give speech he had recited* –> yah –
The speech that we wrote together
Short break – not totally clear between multiple conversations
Left and called back
He brought his ex – before we got into Qs about my history*?
Find me a girlfriend –>
I didn’t know what to say – fairly quick
No touch – ..
What about you – my parents don’t even let me in house
I don’t remember
Talked about tattoos –
I want this tattoo -silhouette of women/woman + flowers
“put it on your chest or your ass [ass crossed out] “butt”
Does age matter? Paused ready to give an answer
Cut me off + said it didn’t
You should have a party –|
Groom => [Q by J?]
Cone of Silence they
Do you know what this is –
No one will know –
I won’t say anything and you won’t say anything
grss – when questions became more personal
Sexual advance – no
Not that I can think of
he likes my make up – we talked
about on the Tuesday after
everything fine – he amidst departure
Wings – refers to eye
[notes in left margin]
Want to distance myself – don’t want to be alone
Jill has been amazing don’t want to make waves want to make as
daisydukes [underlined several times]
I pretended that I did –
Referenced my shorts –
T/C w/ Charlotte Bennett + Jill Desrosiers 6 30 20
JM: heard interaction that made you uncomfortable – know it’s difficult – but I need to understand exactly what happened – important to tell the truth and tell me everything – Everyone held to same standard
CB: what are you going to do
JM: Don’t know – don’t know what happened
CB: I addressed it pretty early – the planting of a seed. I feel like things are ok the transition has been good – taking a step away
The Gov had a series of personal conversations asked what I wanted to do professionally told him I did a lot of work on my campus Title IX life changing moment – I felt comfortable with how personal it was but over the course of a few conversations I felt it was taking a different direction
A: I was in his office – he asked how I was doing/how it was going. I told him I was asked to be the keynote speaker at my alma mater. I talked about how I was sexually assaulted in college and over my life
He kept saying “You were raped, you were raped”. Very aggressive – “some men just see women as little playthings” It was a strange comment. He had to know I was uncomfortable
Then he said he was lonely and that he was looking for a girlfriend
Started Jan 2019 (same orientation as Jan)
Briefer – no direct contact
Once she started staffing him boundaries between briefer + staffer got…
Started staffing when John V left in May 2019 that’s when I met him
Staffing means – really helping Stephanie staff – help her mange calls, communication – he’ll call dictate, make edit to things he wrote
Manage the ins and outs
About ½ the week – whenever he was in the city I was at the desk
I flew w/him a couple of times
First personal Conversation? à first week I met him he asked me if I was single – asked me why – I tried to make light of it – said “there are a lot of losers” he asked me if I commit to things. I told him I commit to school. He said that didn’t count – something else. I told him my ex-boyfriend had fallen into a coma a year after we broke up and I moved all the way across the country and nursed him back to health
He asked questions. It was respectful
Q – frequency of personal conversations?
We could be chatty together – he is always interested in what people are up to. I was weight training – we talked mostly about the gym he asked me to do pushups for him.
[Q ] Did that make you uncomfortable[?]
No I wasn’t uncomfortable – I did pushups until he told me to stop – we had a competition he would ask how many I could do and then tell me he could do 20 more
Q – how often were you alone with him?
More often than not Stephanie was there
Q – personal convos when Steph there?
sometimes – he was more willing to chat when others were not aroundQ – did he ever just call you in to have personal discussions?
[note in margin] Q topics
Most chats were at end of work.
We talked about my parents – I was living with them. He and my father had similar interests – motorcycles. I showed him a YouTube video of a man doing longest plank. We talked about soccer – I play soccer with his daughter. Our towns are close. My relationship status come up one or two times – It was pretty brief – he said something about women w/ muscles being intimidating. Asked about my training – I told him I don’t bench press.
January 2020 (Sunday ≈ 2:00 pm before Budget speech)
Q – You referenced to a convo about “enough is enough”
It was during budget. I went to his house to pick up a power point. I was waiting in the command center. He was in the pool house. He was there looking at the power point + watching TV. He seemed bored and unfocused – he was in a chatty mood – he likes to gossip about the office – he is a little bit isolated.
He always asking about different people are doing. I didn’t say anything. I had nothing to say. He said – tell me something – anything”
CB – So I said – “In 2015 you signed enough is enough” and it changed my life.” He said what do you mean. So I told him the story of my life. How I lost my virginity – about my abusive relationship in college – how he sexually assaulted me – how I reported it – what happened with the investigation – the organization I started. My investigation started a couple of months after he signed the law.
Q – You told him law affected inv?
The office was nervous and unprepared – after the inv. I started looking at fed guidance and state policy I did a lot of research. It ended up becoming my thesis.
Q – How did he respond?
He was interested – he asked a lot of questions about abuse – about what I wanted to do long term
he wanted me to take a step back – not let one bad experience define…
I told him I was raped at 16, that’ how I lost my virginity.
He said – Do you know what a cone of silence is? He told me
–> Confidential ????*
He said if you do this for your career you will always be fighting people in power + never win. He said, “you have to take power”
I said that’s why I am here
–> he said that that’s why am here –
We talked about how REDACTED REDACTED – that she didn’t want to talk about it. He pushed her a lot he asked me how it affected my relationship w/ my parents. I lied. He was very serious. REDACTED REDACTED
My parents didn’t support me. It was a total shit show – so I lied and said it made our relationship stronger.
Q – handled in way that did NOT make you uncomfortable
A. It was unusual to talk about my sex life but not inappropriate. It was a very personal conversation that he took seriously.
Q – other personal Convos before June?
May 15, 2020
It was during COVID – I did not see him until May. The first meeting was
Took place at the capitol in his office
Q – seating?
He was laying on the couch about (6:45 am) feet up
I put down the folder and tried to run out – I am at the door – he stopped me
She said P.J.’s –> really leggings and a sweatshirt
He said what have you been doing? I said “I’ve been here.” “For how long?” “60 days” I haven’t seen you –
–>Who are you sleeping with?
JM –> did he say “sleeping with”?
I don’t know the phrase he used. Who are you hanging with, he listed Folks. Talked about the group in the office he said “are you going to marry Noah?” he said Isn’t he great? I said he is fantastic. he said are you going to get married.
I said “he has a serious girlfriend.” We talked about Jack too I think
He asked me to sit down. I pulled a chair over and sat on the other side of his coffee table I mentioned I was going to give a speech. It was an appropriate follow up to our January conversation.
I don’t specifically recall how introduced
I don’t know if I brought up sexual abuse –
I said I was giving a commencement speech at the women’s college about my work – he asked what I was going to say – he made a thoughtful correction that I used.
I said something about showing up in spite of pain and he said not pain – injustice and betrayal.
He said – “You were raped, you were raped, you were raped. You were abused. forceful repetition it was very odd. Then he said “Men treat women as sexual playthings.” It didn’t sit right with me, he said it more than 3 times. I said to myself “It feels like you are not saying this for my sake.”
It felt like a test – like he wants to get under my skin. By the end of the conversation it felt like a turning point.
He said this is what you should say – he got up and moved to his desk and dictated what the speech should be. He asked me to move across from his desk he continued his version of my speech. It was so odd.
So then I said to him that one of the things I was thinking about was that such a painful thing can quickly become ones greatest accomplishment and that that’s how the pandemic must be for him. Its showing up when things are hard. My work at Hamilton totally changed the course of y life. I told him I am wondering how you are doing
He said “how do you think I am doing?”
He seemed insecure and he was crabby
He was wondering when to end the briefings
He expressed concern that people that people are less interested in briefings
He asked “Am I doing anything different?”
CB said no
He asked why are people less interested
CB offered – a lot was fear and anticipation of climbing mountain – they are now deflated, tired, less urgent. He talked about what worked, what resonated – I said the “personal touches” – seeing him really experiencing it – showing genuine emotion – that he was a real New Yorker – people are scared, kids are getting sick. Fear staring at the mountain.
Q – when did he introduce that he was looking for a Girlfriend?
CB asked “How are you doing?”
He said – he was tired + lonely and wants to get on a bike with a woman and go into the mountains –
It was part of a larger conversation
Ended when MDR came into the office, he handed her the power point and she ran to the team, threw the slide – she was near tears –
[Q -] Why?
He was aggressive, he repeated, statement you were raped, abused,
[Q -] was this the first time you were distressed –
No – seems petty – back in November  she was having a bad week and she had her hair (in a bun?) – he arrived at 6:33 and said why is your hair like that and then he didn’t talk to her all day – then when leaving asked again why my hair was like that – as he walked away I said loudly so others could hear – “he doesn’t like my hair.” She was upset and annoyed.
Next convo post 5/15
I went into his office with Farrah – both wearing masks. Farah took first half of dictation and then left to transcribe – the mask kept sucking into my face – he made a comment that it looked like predator – he said if some asked if he were being investigated for sexual harassment and he says “she looks like a predator” he was making a joke how his comment about my appearance – how would you say that was sexual harassment. It was a strange comment.
After we finished dictation he asked how my speech went and then said turn of the recorder – which was ok because it was personal not work – We had a very long conversation
Steph asked – were you working that whole time? Dictating?
What were you talking about?
–> (UNCLEAR response)
We talked about the speech. I said it went really well. We talked about how it sucks to be on Zoom. I told him I had (a bottle of?) champagne at the end. We may have discussed the substance of the speech. He asked if I gave the speech we “wrote together.”
There was a short break – CB in + out of office + and doesn’t know what happened before/after.
She is not totally clear between multiple convos. He brought up his ex – he said Sandy was not talking to him, that he was lonely, that he was not sleeping well. He said he was looking for a G.F. He told CB she was in charge of finding him a girlfriend.
He asked her about how she felt about age differences and brushed off her answer and said age doesn’t matter so long as she is above 22. He knew she was 25. Speech on her 25th B-day. CB said like your daughters
–> We talked about monogamy à she did not think all that important.
He asked how being sexually assaulted affected the way I was attracted to men
He asked about recent hookups
He knew my XBF was in a coma – he asked if that was my last serious relationship. He wanted to know who I had been seeing – if I was sleeping with other people, if they were sleeping with other people, he wanted to know the longest relationship I had since my ex.
[Note in margin:] recalled later: He said it is hard not touching someone in months. I said are your daughters gone,
he asked me and I said my parents wouldn’t even let me in the house because of Covid and I had not even had a hug.
The convo about the girlfriend was fairly quick I didn’t know what to say. I suggested Jada Pinkett Smith + Chelsea Handler. He said CH was crazy
Q – Anything else you can recall?
We talked about tattoos – my birthday I wanted to get a tattoo – w/ a Silhouette of a woman and flowers – I was going to put on my back he said put on your chest or ass. Ass? [Ass double underlined] – he said “butt”
I said you should have a party
I had not even had a hug.
The convo about the girlfriend was fairly quick I didn’t know what to say. I suggested Jada Pinkett Smith + Chelsea Handler. He said CH was crazy.
He repeated that he was lonely + doesn’t know what to do, he wants to get drunk and get on his motorcycle and take a woman into the mountains and forget about the pandemic for a few hours.
CB said I don’t know how you do that – how you have time for a relationship or would find privacy.
he said privacy is not a problem.
Q – Anything else? [repeats about tattoo]
We talked about tattoos – I wanted a tattoo for my birthday of a Silhouette of a woman with flowers – I was getting on my back and he said no get it on your chest or ass. Ass? No – he said butt.
The next day – it was just me. Everyone else (MDR + Steph) left – it felt like a follow up to show me he could find privacy. He asked me if I had found a Girlfriend for him. He said I looked like daisy dukes and then he left.
There were a lot of red flags – he asked if I knew what a cone of silence was – I said yes – he said we can have a personal conversation – we have a cone of silence. That is a blatant example of grooming and clearing.
I won’t say anything – you won’t say anything – when questions became more personal.
[Q –] Besides Cone of Silence what made you uncomfortable
The age difference question and his picking a specific age
à Did he ever make an sexual advance – No
Did he ever touch you? –
Is there anything else you can think of?
He said he like my make up on 5/9 [should be 6/9?] when staffed in City – called me wings – everything else was fine
Anything else I haven’t asked – anything else
Not that I can think of
I want to distance myself – I don’t want this to become this big thing. Want to keep small
Jill has been amazing
I don’t want to make waves
I want to make as little of this as possible
Charlotte Bennett follow up w/ Jill 7 1 20
You wanted to speak again – not worth a whole call – increasingly anxious
Employee hand book – think there might need to be an investigation and am very anxious about that –
Do you know more yet?
(JM says piece)
Everything you said I agree with –
I acted before anything happened
JM – let me ask you – don’t want words but it sounds like he was a supportive friend
We had a lot of meaningful conversations and I felt he was acting as my friend
Still feel that way –
Prefer new position
This is my dream job –
Charlotte Bennett followup (w/ Jill)
Charlotte texted: Hey there! It’s Charlotte. Would you mind hopping on the phone sometime this pm for a quick check in?”
–> JM: You wanted to speak again?
CB not sure its worth a whole call but I am anxious read the ee handbook and am worried there might need to be an investigation. Was wondering if you had further idea of what might happen next –
JM – Glad you called. Don’t want you to be anxious. Have gone over everything you said. Am familiar w/ handbook. Here’s what I think – want to make sure am understanding what she told us. – correct me if I am wrong. Really important that I not put words in your mouth – but my conclusion is that you had some very personal discussions with G that you were comfortable with and that at the point where you started to become less comfortable, you took control and acted to remove yourself “to address the situation” as you told us – before anything happened that you were concerned about.
CB – Yes – I agree with everything you just said I was worried it might be going in the wrong direction – in a direction I didn’t want – and I asked to be moved before anything had happened.
JM – So in that case, then there doesn’t need to be an investigation because you are not saying he took any unwanted step.
CB – Yes
JM – Again don’t want to put words in your mouth, but it sounds to me like when you were discussing personal experiences w/ G he was acting as a friend, being supportive
CB – Yes! We had a lot of very meaningful conversations and I felt he was acting as my friend – I still feel that way – that he is my friend. That’s what makes this so hard. He is the Governor but he was also my friend – my job – it’s very hard.
JM – Just want to make sure you don’t feel you were in anyway force out of a job you would have preferred to stay in .
[CB] No—this is my dream job.
JM: OK because if you wanted and [does not equal symbol] sound like you do – We would arrange for you to keep that job and make sure you are comfortable – that you would not have to be alone with him.
No – TY
CB – I am so relieved – I was very anxious before I spoke to you. Now I feel so much better.
JM – Good – we don’t want you to be anxious Jill and I always avail –
Know you will do great things – want the State to be part of it
Ms. DeRosiers’ Notes (Exhibit 3)
[Judy Mogul, Chamber Counsel on the phone, Jill DesRosias & Charlotte Bennett in JD’s office]
June 30 
JD goes to get CB from office says talks through all personnel decisions with JM. Would it be ok to get JM on the telephone. JM would like to hear directly from CB.
CB – Yes
JM – don’t know what JD told you but I’m sorry to pull you out of a meeting just important that we speak to you. Want to hear in your own words what happened.
CB – pause – what will you do? What happens next
JM – Unfortunately I can’t really say without knowing from you what happened.
CB – That makes sense
Interaction 1 – pre-budget – 2 days before
– was in the command center compiling book to leave for gov
– he told SP or house staff? that I should go to pool house
– AC was sitting on the couch doing work. Looked up. Asked me to tell him something – asked about staff/gossip
– CB said didn’t have anything to say – said often AC would ask about staff. Who is talking to whom – any gossip and
– She didn’t have anything to say on/re* that
– AC asked her to tell him something else.
– CB shared that passing Enough is Enough changed her life.
– AC sat up and asked her to sit down, asked her what she meant
– CB said that she was sexually assaulted in college – also had lost her virginity – and she had a bad experience with trying to get her college to look at it. And Enough is Enough was at approx. the same time and she believes the law forced her school to take her case seriously and look into it.
AC said Do you know what the cone of silence is? What gets said here stays here –
CB said that was odd.
AC told her that REDACTED BLACKED OUT had been the victim of a sexual assault at her college too.
REDACTED BLACKED OUT LINE
REDACTED BLACKED OUT LINE
AC asked CB of the experience made her closer to her father.
CB said she didn’t answer honestly because she said she didn’t want to get into it. She said yes it brought her closer to her family. In reality her parents weren’t supportive of her making an issue out of it.
Interaction 2 – May 15th
CB had been up in Albany assisting the front office w/ staffing and also working on the book.
AC came into office early one morning 6 a[m] ish and CB came in early to get him PPT. She was in pajamas. (later said leggings and a sweatshirt) because she should have been up but didn’t have time to get ready.
CB says she was just planning on going into AC office dropping the PPT and was going to run out.
CB says when she went to his back office AC was laying on couch with feet up.
CB says AC was surprised to see her and asked how long she had been up there (in Albany).
CB says that she said she been up in Albany for 60 days. [during pandemic!] She said AC was surprised and asked her who she was hanging out with who she was sleeping with.
JM asked – who you were sleeping w/?
CB corrected – no not who I was sleeping w/ who I was hanging out w/ then AC asked her if she was interested in Noah or Jack and proposed that she marry Noah.
(at some point he asked her to sit)
CB says she told him about her upcoming speech she was giving to the womens group at her college. She said it was on her experience.
CB said at some point of the discussion AC said loudly and repeatedly – You were raped! You were raped! You were raped!
JM asked if he said it 3 times
CB said more than 3
CB said it made her uncomfortable and that she felt like he said that to get under her skin or get in her head.
JM said why
CB – Because it didn’t seem like it was for [her?] benefit that she felt like it was meant to unsettle her
At some point AC gets up and goes to sit at his desk and tells her to move chairs
CB says she makes connection that her speech is like* similar to watch/what* governor is dealing with covid.
Taking something that causes pain and turning into meaningful
they? [arrow points to second line below]
CB reads a line from the speech to AC. He makes what CB called a thoughtful correction that she ended up using.
CB said something about how this is important to speak about because of pain –> he changed to betrayal and injustice. He also told her what he thought the speech should say.
Re Covid – AC says that he wants to understand why different now why less people paying attention
CB says that people were scared at the beginning and now they aren’t anymore as much.
AC says that he wants to be touched. And is lonely
CB says aren’t your daughters here.
AC says he wants to get on his motorcycle and ride to the mountains w/ a woman.
CB says at some point Melissa walked in because she had arrived at work. CB takes the ppt from his desk and leaves at that point.
Interaction 3 – June 5
AC was dictating to Farrah and CB. Farrah left room.
CB stayed back.
CB talked about how her speech had gone and said that it went really well. AC said our* speech
Which she took to mean that he helped her write it.
Do not remember exact order
– CB said it felt like AC was grooming her.
-CB says AC said he was lonely that Sandra wasn’t talking to him and he wanted to get on his motorcycle and ride into the mountains w/ a woman.
AC asked CB about who she was seeing/sleeping w/. He had previously discussed w/ CB her ex-boyfriend was in a coma and CB moved back to be near him. They then talked about monogamy – whether CB knew if the people she was sleeping w/ were sleeping with other people.
CB says casually to JD & JM that she doesn’t really believe in monogamy. But then quickly* goes back to the interaction w/ AC and she says it was a serious conversation.
CB says AC again said he was lonely.
CB then says she deflects by saying he should have friends* over and have drinks.
CB says AC asked her to find him a girlfriend. She says she deflected and said Jada Pinkett Smith or Chelsea Handler. He said Jada is married and Chelsea is nuts.
AC then asks CB what the criteria should be for prospective girlfriends. AC said to her what should the age cutoff be?
CB says she was paused and didn’t respond yet
AC jumped in and said as long as they are over 22
CB says that she was taken aback by that answer because AC knew she had just turned 25.
CB said don’t you think that it would be hard to date you can’t really have any privacy. AC said privacy wouldn’t be an issue for him.
–No good notes on how this conversation ended.–
CB says she felt in this conversation that AC was starting to “groom” her by some of the topics they covered and questions AC raised to her
In particular – CB felt that when AC was asking about age and whether age mattered that was a leading question.
CB said 22 or over because he knew she was 25. Also because she used to play soccer against his daughters when she was growing up because she lived in Westchester. So he knew they would be roughly the same age.
CB felt concerned after this interaction
CB said this was approx. an hour long interaction. When she left his office SB asked her if AC had been dictating that entire time. CB said no we were talking. SB asked about what. CB says she didn’t really answer.
Interaction 4 – June 7
CB was staffing AC that day
JM asked what staffing entailed
CB said answer phones. Pulling together meetings, typing things up for him. It didn’t include some more high level work.
CB was called in to help staff. MD & SB left the office so CB was alone with AC.
CB says she felt like AC orchestrated the private situation as a way to show power and that he could get her alone. She felt like it was a follow up to her conversation w/ him on the 5th about finding a girlfriend where he said he would be able to have a private situation.
– Do not have good notes on this conversation
– AC called CB Daisy Dukes. CB had to look on the internet but sees he was likely referring to her shorts that she was wearing to the office.
– AC left soon after daisy dukes
– At some point of the conversation, they discussed a tattoo that CB wanted to get of a woman holding to flowers. CB said she was going to put it on her back. CB said AC said you should get on chest or ass.
– JM said à he said ass?
– CB said no he said butt
June 9 – CB staffed AC in NYC office She didn’t have any particular interactions w/ AC that caused alarm
June 10 – CB goes to see JD.
CB requests to be removed from staffing rotation and moved to do a different job. CB tells JD that their conversations had become personal to the point where she was uncomfortable and that AC had told her he was lonely.
June 12 – JD/CB come to agreement about new position in health portfolio. CB does not staff AC again. Transition to new position begins the following Monday.
JM q – Did AC ever make any sexual advances or touch you?
CB – no
JM – Because you took control before anything could happen.
CB – yes.
JM – any additional interaction
–> not sure of sequence some of the stories may have happened earlier
One day staffing in NYC CB was having a bad day. CB says she didn’t feel like she was pulled together and her hair was in a bun.
CB says AC came in and made a comment about her hair and not liking it that way. AC then went to work in his office and CB didn’t really see him again until he was on the way out the door. AC remarked again that he didn’t like her hair and called her Bun.
CB says she got up out of her chair as he was walking out and remarked loud enough so he could hear “he doesn’t like my hair”
-CB said that AC had personal conversations w/ her. CB had told him once that she was getting into body building.
AC asked her how many push ups she could do. They then had a push up contest. AC did one more than her. AC told her men don’t like woman that are stronger than they are.
JM asked CB twice* if there was anything else she wanted to tell us.
CB said not that she can think of. She was interested in what would happen next. JM informed CB that she was grateful to her for sharing her story and that if she felt ever that she needed to talk to someone there are resources available.
There is EAP and counseling that she can access.
CB thanked her. JM ended the call. CB was in person in JD office. She was tearing up.
She said thank you and left to go back to her office.
Approx meeting time 2 hrs. 15/20 mins.
Follow up Phone Call – July 1st
CB texts JM ask if there are any updates
JM, JD call CB at 7 pm.
JM starts conversation by saying I got your text that you wanted an update and wanted to call to check in.
CB says I’ve been really anxious. I’ve been reading the handbook, went to the doctors* today and guess I just want to know what happens next.
JM says (not exact) OK I want to set your mind at ease. I am very familiar with the handbook. I have read through my notes and reviewed the law and it sounds like based on what you shared that while there were conversation that became too personal and uncomfortable that most of your interactions were appropriate and that once the conversations became uncomfortable you took control of the situation. Acted immediately to go to JD to be moved out of the situation and that she moved you to do something else quickly. The conduct you described does not rise to the level of harassment and no further inquiry appears to be necessary at this time.
Do you agree with what I just said?
CB – Yes. and it’s a relief. I was worrying that AC would be mad he’s a powerful person. But yes agree w/ what you described.
JM – and from what you described would you say that most of your interactions were positive and support and that you considered AC a friend
CB – yes and I still consider him my friend.
JM – you are very courageous. One more question – You asked to be moved to transition to a new job. I want to make sure that you are happy and that your new position is something you want to be doing. Because if you wanted to remain on the briefing team we could work something out where you could do that comfortably.
CB – This is my dream job I had previously spoken to Megan and Jill about my desire to work in the health portfolio this is a dream job
JM – Good we want you to be successful and there should be nothing here that would hold you back. And no one can retaliate against you for what you told us today.
CB – I am relieved I had a lot of anxiety.
JM – Please feel free to reach out to us if anything else comes up or you need to speak to us about anything. My door is open. Jill’s door is open.